Semantics, semantics... Real Catholic TV - the organization whose main public voice is Michael Voris has announced that it will remove the word "catholic". The full article may be here at Catholic News Service (CNS). Mark Shea has an interesting analysis on the motivation behind the name change.
The problem is much deeper - does a layman have the right to catechize? Yes, if it means to individually witness for the Faith. However, does a layman have the right to carry on a open, public catechetical ministry without hierarchical oversight? NO. And this is the problem. What exactly is the "church militant"? Is it Catholic? It is not if it is not under the hierarchy. It may sound, smell, and look like the real thing, but without the bishop, it is not. No layman can carry on an apostolate claiming to teach the Faith without guidance and oversight form the Divinely appointed lawgivers: the local Ordinary in union with the Pope. Let us not get bogged down in the local diocese having lost the Faith: Rome is the judge of that.
The Apostles and the Church Fathers have from the beginnings of the Church been confronted with those who fluff off the bishop. St. Ignatius of Antioch devoted considerable effort to emphasizing obedience to the bishop; Pius XII emphatically wrote of how laymen- when catechizing - are under the direction of the hierarchy. The Second Vatican Council reiterated this traditional teaching.
"... has announced that it will comply to the request of the Archdiocese of Detroit to remove the word "catholic". "
ReplyDeleteThat is flatly and categorically NOT TRUE. Please, find and post the announcement that says this. There isn't one, because that is not what's happened.
Perhaps you missed the link to the Catholic News Service?
ReplyDeleteMark Shea are a good analysis as to the name change. Indeed, it is - sadly - true. The name change was not motivated by obedience to the Archbishop of Detroit...
ReplyDelete@Freyer
ReplyDeleteThat is not an official announcement from ChurchMilitant.tv - it is a news article. They can say whatever they wish - it does not mean it's true, nor accurate. When I say "post an announcement", I am looking for something official from the apostolate directly. That doesn't exist, because it didn't happen.
Not to defend my friend Michael but has the National Cathlic Reporter or more locally, Catholic New Times (on line) obeyed Canon Law?
ReplyDeleteWhat is your issue with Voris. How does it differ from this blog or my own?
I find it incredulous that you question is Catholicity.
I know the man personally and his spiritual director, you know neither and respectfully, your point is incorrect.
I really find the attack on Michael Voris from this place unfair and unreasonable, I would have though you would be his biggest supporters.
By the way, I understand the new Basilan Pastor has thrown out two of the three faithful Basilians left in Canada, the other being the Archbishop of Vancouver and throwing the Chesterton group in disarray.
How are the abortions at St. Michael's and St. Joseph's Hospitals coming along.
What about the fact that I now know for certain that not only did the "Priests' Council' whatever that is, gang up to ensure that the FSSP did not get Canadian Martyrs but they demanded they be booted because they refused to obey an illegal command to refuse to give communion on the tongue during the H1N1 charade.
Perhaps you have succumbed to the McCarthy vision of million dollar publicity of His Eminence in a Leaf sweater in St. Peter's Square. I for one and embarassed by the crassness.
Perhaps you might go after the real enemies of the Church.
I'd like to add another thing.
ReplyDeleteMichael was in town last month; were you there to hear him give an un-Catholic talk?
Well, I was!
He has the right as any Catholic to stand up and preach the faith, this is not reserved for priests. He does not need any overseer for this. I don't know where you get this from.
Actually I take very little note of anything Mr. Voris does because it really isn't worth the aggravation and bother. When someone does force me to take notice, these days I find it far more edifying to read the Fathers than anyone's combox.
ReplyDeleteShea's becoming tiresome on this subject. Frankly, I never read him. He has a real hate on for Voris and has used rash judgement and detraction to the max.
ReplyDeleteI'll repeat what I said above that you have not answered.
What are you doing about the abortions at St. Michael's Hospital or the episcopal "leaders" and their capitulation to a fascist government and homosexualist mafia?
Oh, that's okay because his Lectio Divina is just so chic.
A red hat?
Not deserved and I have a right to say that.
Please stop the episcopolatry.
Episcopolatry is not a valid Scrabble word.
ReplyDeleteI'm confused by all this. What I am aware of is that Pope Benedict XVI has called for a New Evangelization. Does this exclude laymen? If not, Voris is (and has been) evangelizing. Or are Catholic laymen supposed to keep quiet? What if the Bishop supports non-Church teaching, supports same-sex marriage, choice, etc.? Voris always defers to the Holy Father, that much I do know from having watched him.
ReplyDeleteIn the Catholic Church everyone is submitted to some authority since God established it as a hierarchy. Now if you can tell me to whom Michael Voris is submitted and by whose authority he preaches, then perhaps we can talk.
ReplyDeleteOne may legitimately use the word "Catholic" in his title or name without seeking and obtaining official permission if he is not purporting to represent the Church in an official capacity. One is not required to seek or obtain this permission if one is not alleging to be officially representing the Catholic Church but only one's own personal Catholic self. Not obtaining permission that is not required or necessary is not a sign of lack of submission or obedience.
ReplyDeleteThat Michael Voris is obedient to his bishop is evident by virtue of the fact that he did not refuse to rename his apostolate, whether or not he was motivated in the main or totally by the Chief Bishop's call for the renewal of the Church Militant in the mind of the faithful.
I have seen many people who do officially represent the Catholic Church mangle her teachings and spread thoroughly ignorant, if not outright malicious, lies about her. I've witnessed this myself in RCIA classes where I was shocked beyond belief to hear deacons teach things that bordered closely upon heresy as if they were God's truth.
There are real problems in the Church. Michael Voris is not one of them. Thank God, he speaks the truth and I have never heard him say anything that is not solidly Catholic and I've listened to him for years.
Michael Voris cannot conduct a public catechetical apostolate outside of the Legitimate Teaching Authority of the Church. This is the real (pardon the pun) issue - not even so much the name.
ReplyDeleteI ask a simple question: who, in the Sacred Teaching Authority is overseeing the "catechesis and evangelization" that "ChurchMilitantTV" claims to be promoting? Evidently, it is not Archbishop Vigneron, nor any other bishop that I can think of...
What is Michael Voris doing that is different then what the Catholic Truth Society or even the Knights of Columbus does? He is not engaged in official catechetical apostolate activites on behalf of the Church. He is simply speaking the truth about the teachings of the Roman Catholic Church and provides resources to people. The Catholic Truth Society does basically the same thing in providing books and pamphlets on the faith, so do the Knights of Columbus. You can can get information on the Catholic faith from them too. You do not have to be ordained or of a religious order to talk to people about God and faith in Jesus. All practicing Catholics as Christians are called upon to bear witness to the truth in words and actions. Michael Voris has never said anything that is untrue. He only bears witness to the truth. What some people don't like about him is that he is traditional, conservative, and is not ecumenical and is highly critical of the heresies around like Protestantism and Secular Social Liberalism (Secular Humanism).
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